At a time when we here at TNG are debating the future of the changing DC gay community and the role of forums like TNG in that change, it is refreshing to sit down and talk with Carlos Izurieta of the DC hardcore band Police & Thieves. Not unlike our community, the hardcore scene, both in DC and across the country, has experienced rapid change over the past decade. As a veteran of the scene, Carlos offers a unique perspective. I think we can learn some lessons as we here at TNG deal with our own growing pains. Read the interview below the fold.
The New Gay Robert: I am excited you are willing to sit down and talk with us. As you could probably guess, many TNG readers aren't familiar with Police & Thieves. How would you describe your music to folks who are not familiar with the underground hardcore-punk scene?
Carlos Izuerieta: I would say we blend melody and aggression with socio-political lyrics, and what comes out is our sound. It is tough sometimes because we're usually the odd band out on most punk and hardcore bills. We play mid-tempo songs and for those who don't know, hardcore is usually played really fast. So, sometimes it takes a few times for people to see what we are doing. It is not groundbreaking or anything ,just a bit different than the more traditional punk and hardcore bands we have shared the stage with.
TNG: In addition to being unfamiliar with your music, a lot of our readers probably don't know that you are guys are old-timers, in a sense that guys are all in your late 20's to mid 30's. Punk is typically music and a scene that is youth-driven, which makes sense given the ideas and politics that emerge during that time in life. Is it hard to relate to an audience that in some cases is half your age?
CI: (laughs) Are you calling us old?
TNG: Well, older than your typical person in the scene.
CI: I know what you mean. The thing is that we love punk and hardcore music and probably always will. The beauty of this music scene is that is generally accepting of anyone. I mean the shows are usually all ages as opposed to some clubs/ bars that don't allow anyone under 21. What I'm trying to say is that yes we are older, but we can relate with them over music. In a sense, the music acts a bridge that can cross over so many barriers. It is interesting to talk to the kids at shows because you can totally relate to the first time you saw one of your favorite hardcore bands and how much that meant to you. Hanging out, meeting new people, and talking to the kids after we play is my favorite part about our shows. It can be so refreshing to see kids that are not jaded about hardcore. Most kids drop out of the scene by the time they're 21.
TNG: How old were you when you started going to punk shows?
CI: I grew up in a pretty strict catholic household. We were not allowed stay out late unless it was for sports or school. So, I started going to shows about the time I was 18, which is later than most. I talked to some kids this weekend that saw my old band (Worn Thin) when they were in 5th grade. That blew my mind. My first show was Murphy's Law with my friend nick at the old 930 Club. It was a life changing experience. I had been listening to Metallica, the Misfits ,and mainly metal and alternative until I met my friend Nick who turned me onto Murphys Law, Sick Of It All, Government Issue, and Minor Threat. I remember going to the old 930 club for the first time. I was used to safe old Arlington and 9th and F is not the same 9th and F that it is now. It was way sketchy - sketchy to the point where I didn't ever tell my parents where we were going because even though I was 18 they would have freaked out. I remember walking in there and just watching the opening bands and nothing happened. I thought "oh this is just like when I saw REM or U2 except in a bigger club." Then, all of a sudden Murphy's Law comes out and the singer yells "What's up We're Murphy's Law," and as soon as the drummer hit the cymbal the place exploded along with beer bottles and myself being knocked to the floor. I had the wind knocked out of me for a second, and got back in there and had a blast - especially when I started stage diving I think that was when I was hooked (laughs). It was something you always wanted to get better, especially when watching all the older kids do front and back flips. I liked that more than dancing, I was more into diving and singing along.
TNG: Did you ever think you would be doing this as an adult? I know that for me, I often think "I wonder what 20 year-old Robert would think of 31 year-old Robert." Did you ever think you would be doing this as an adult?
CI: No, not really. I had no idea what i would be doing in my 30's. I'm just glad that I found something I would enjoy. I always knew that punk and hardcore would be a big part of my life. It can be hard sometimes being older and still in a more youth oriented scene because as you know adults are saddled down with "responsibilities" which can put a damper on things like touring. I think we have found a happy medium. We have been able to balance our outside life with a band life we are happy with. We record on our own time frame, play shows once or twice a month, and practice every week.
TNG: Along those lines, a lot of the inspiration to hardcore and punk is born out of frustration with the status quo. I know for me personally, that hardcore and punk as a set of ideas remained with me as I grew up, but some of the anger and frustration that drove me to the scene in the first place has waned gradually as I got older and gained some new perspectives. How are you able to maintain that level of intensity being that your life is likely pretty different now than it was when you were a teenager? Do the same things that inspire you then still inspire you no?
CI: Its funny, because I think I am at a place in my life where I am comfortable. At the same time, I still carry the spirit of dissention and some of the anger from punk and hardcore music. Growing up so close to DC and now living in it, it is hard not to write about what you see. We're not a political band per se, but its there and you can't avoid it. It pisses me off that we're in a war that we had no say in and we elected someone that is so incompetent at running it. I personally did not vote for him, but at times it's indicative of the climate we live in. Our president is such a polarizing figure. It's all hard to ignore because sooner or later it's going to be there on your front door step and then you can't hide from it. A good friend's dad was this gung ho Republican, voted for Bush the first time around, and was really stoked on what he was doing with the military and to protect us. But he came to find out through his son who is a Marine how the war had nothing to do with the individuals who attacked us, and how we were sending our troops over to fight this war that may never end. That is what our new record, "Amor y Guerra," is about. In Spanish it means "love and war."
TNG: You are from the DC area?
CI: I was born in Ecuador but moved to Arlington when I was five.
TNG: Many people, as you know, flock here to live because of the jobs and colleges around. What are some things that carpetbaggers - simply by not being raised here - don't understand or don't appreciate about the city?
CI: DC is such a transient city, and sometimes people overlook the beauty of the city. I am even guilty of it. I know were not as fast paced a city as say New York, but it is easy to get lost in your own little world and forget about how amazing it is to be able to walk to the top of certain streets and see the beautiful DC skyline. It can take your breath away. DC also has a vibrant underground music scene, from free shows in Fort Reno park to basement and church shows in and around DC. Those things are put on by kids and a community that love the music
TNG: That is a good segue to talk about community. One issue that has been discussed on this site is the changing landscape of the DC gay scene (and gay neighborhoods in general). During the 70's and 80's, when the social climate was far more adverse to lesbians and gay men, neighborhoods were more important to the community as they provided safe and nurturing spaces. With the massive social changes regarding sexual orientation over the past 20 years, the neighborhood has become less relevant as the need for a common space has become necessary. In other words, the role community has changed, because the world around it has changed. This is particularly the case for those who didn't come of age in the 70's and 80s'. Recognizing the obvious differences, the punk community exists in a far different world today than it did during its inception. At the music level, independent music or "indie rock" has provided a greater outlet for more daring and creative artists, there are a slew of bands that replicate the punk-hardcore aesthetic but do not hold the values. Vinyl records, which were a staple of DIY in the 1990s when we were growing up, are almost relics in an era where anything can be found for free online. Additionally, blogs and My Space have changed how learn about new music and relate to others around the country. How would you say these larger outside changes have affected the hardcore scene as a community?
CI: I think it has splintered the community into these different niche groups so to speak. Back then you had punk, hardcore, and indie bands all on one bill and now it is very genre or scene specific. I do think though that DC has always been pretty good about mixing it up. I think that is because at the core the majority of the bands in DC have a social conscience, in contrast to bands who form specifically so they can become rock stars. That is not the case here in DC, at least not in the underground scene. Most bands form to have fun, but they also have a message.
TNG: So basically you see a lot of continuity at the core (pardon the pun) despite the newer terrain?
CI: Yes, I do. For kids going to shows now I think there are still enough positive influences within the scene to keep it on the same path. There are still a good number of kids that are socially and politically active and that care about those things more than the latest fashion.
TNG: So, what does non-music Carlos spend his time doing?
CI: Let's see... I work for a non-profit in Dupont, run and train for marathons, and hang out with my friends. I am working on a Masters Degree in Latin American studies, but it is taking longer than expected. Or maybe I am taking my time and enjoying myself too much (laughs).
TNG: Hopefully it is the latter. So what should we expect to see on Sunday night when you play the Black Cat on Sunday night?
CI: Sunday night will be a lot of fun. We are playing with two other bands: the Scare and Lion of Judah. The scare is a local DC band who play melodic punk with a twist of gothic over tones, sort of like the Misfits. Lion of Judah is this hybrid of rock and roll and hardcore with some weird time elements. For those familiar ,they remind me of a band from DC named Swiz.
TNG: Sweet, we look forward to it.
See Carlos' band Police & Thieves shred up the backstage at the Black Cat this Sunday, May 11th, with The Scare and Lion of Judah. Tickets are $8 and doors open at 9:00.
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